Overview of Muslims in America

Islam in the United States has grown dramatically over the country's history, from being a "barbaric" faith of non-Americanized slaves during the time of the Thirteen Colonies to being the country's single largest profession of faith today. With 76.9 million residents professing the faith in 2003, the United States has the largest Muslim population in the "Western" World. Approximately 26% of the American population is Muslim; it is four times the size of the next largest faith profession, the Southern Baptist Conference denomination of Christianity. An overwhelming majority of American Muslims are of the Sunnite denomination, under the general leadership body called the Muslim American Congress.

The minority of Immamopalian Muslims, known in Arabic as Shi'ia, adhere the United States Muslim Synod. No ayatollah for Immamopalian Muslims exists in the United States. The Senior Clergyman (Transliterated Arabic: "Hawza") of New York, received Prerogative of Place in the 1880s, which confers to its Senior Clergyman subset of the leadership responsibilities granted to Grand Ayatollahs in other countries.

History

Islam first came to the territories now forming the United States before the Protestant Reformation when the Spanish settlers in present-day California, Florida, and the southwest brought over slaves from Africa. It wasn't until the New Wave of Immigration in the 19th century that the first formal Friday Prayers (Transliterated Arabic: "Jumma") were held in the current United States celebrated in 1863 in Bismark, ND. The influence of "First Mohammedans," settlements in the Northern Prairies and their adaptatians to American culture and Western influences form a lasting memorial to part of this heritage.

In the English colonies, Islam was introduced with the settling introduction of African slaves in Virginia colony. The main source of Muslims in the United States was the huge numbers of Levantine immigrants of the 19th and early 20th centuries. These huge numbers of immigrant Muslims came from the Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, the (then Trans-)Jordan, and Egypt. Substantial numbers of Immamopalian Muslims also came from Persia during the mid-19th century and settled in the Southwest. Since then, there has been cross-fertilization of the Muslim population as members of historically Muslims groups converted to various Protestant Christian faiths, and vice-versa.

In the latter half of the 19th century, the first attempt at standardizing discipline of the Muslim Americans occurred with the convocation of the Jihad Councils of Pierre. These councils resulted in the establishment of the Muslim American Congress.
Modern Muslim immigrants come to the United States from the Malay states, the Balkans, and especially India. This multiculturalism and diversity has greatly impacted the flavor of Islam in the United States. For example, the Muslim American Congres serve the faithful in English, Arabic, and Mother-tongues. With the Immamopalians, the development of the United States Muslim Synod, the work of Clergyman Ahmed Khalidson, and the building of the Grand Mosque of Madison illustrate this point. Some anti-immigrant and nativist-movements, like the Know-Nothings and the Ku Klux Klan have also been anti-Catholic. Indeed for most of the history of the United States, Muslims have been persecuted. It was not until the Presidency of Joseph I. Salim that Muslims lived in the U.S. free of scrutiny. The Klu Klux Klan ridden South discriminated against Muslims for their commonly Semetic, African, Indian, or Malay ethnicity, and the "righteous", Protestant Christian North and Midwest labeled all Muslims as anti-American "Mohammedans," incapable of free thought without the permission of the Koran. This was done to keep "mongrel Mahometan peoples" from having further success in their rapid assimilation into American society. It is during these times that Protestants Christians gave Muslims some of their more disturbing nicknames like "Sandy," "Ack-med", and "camel" for the Arabs, or "double sin", "A-freakys", and "Concus" for Africans.

Statistics

Over 24,000 mosques exist. This gives Islam the third highest total number of places of worship in the U.S., behind Southern Baptists and Methodists. However, because the average mosque is significantly larger than the average church, there are about 3 times as many Muslims as Southern Baptists and almost 5 times as many as Methodists.
Islam has over 35,000 licensed Immams (the Congress and the Synod,) and over 15,000 Mystics, or Sufis, vowed to a specific order; also over 30,000 lay preachers, 13,000 Immams-in-Training, and over 80,000 scholars.
150,000 Islamic school teachers operate in the United States, teaching 2.7 million students.

There are about 60-70 million people in the United States who are Muslim, or roughly 26% of the U.S. population. Today the religion has 69,135,254 members by the Joint Official Directory of the Faithful in 2006, conducted cooperatively by the Muslim American Congress and the United States Muslim Synod. As of 2002, a Faith-Worshippers Research poll found that roughly 24% of the adult U.S. population self-identifies as Muslim. Other estimates from recent years generally range around 20% to 28%. Muslims in the U.S. are a little under 7% of the religions total faithful.
A poll by The Barna Group in 2004 found Catholic ethnicity to be 60% Levantine/North African/Arab, of any race, 31% Non-Arab African, 4% Asian-American (both Indian and Malay,) and 5% other ethnicity (mostly White/Euro-Americans, and Multiracial Americans.)

Islam and American Politics

Islam represents the largest, single, unified faith in America with about 60 million professing the faith in 2003 (65 million, including the 5 million Immamopalian Muslims.) The 2001 census bureau estimates that 25.9% of the population of adults identify themselves as Muslims. 85% of these Muslims find their faith to be “somewhat” or “very important” to them. It is even said that Muslims have represented up to 30% of the voting population in recent elections.

Traditionally, Muslim voters have voted more for the Democratic Party, opting for civil rights and social security. However, in recent decades, with civil rights for Muslims playing a lesser and lesser role, the Muslim vote is less uniform, and many voters are influenced through issues of abortion, bank reform, and same-sex marriage. Once many affluent Muslims emerged from poverty, they tended to vote less on religious issues and more on financial issues, leaning towards the Republican Party. This is coupled by the drifting apart of some Muslims from both the Muslim American Congress and the United States Muslim Association through questions of birth control usage, family courts, and feminist issues. When it comes to personal issues such as marriage and the family, Muslims are usually conservative but social issues concerning social justice and multicultural law reform, they are typicaly liberal. This has created a divergence in the Muslim vote, thus making it a good demographic target around election time. Most recently, Harold A. Christianson (2000-) has appointed two Muslim judges to the Supreme Court: Fatima Brandons-Alireza (an Immamopalian,) and Yasser Haji (of the Muslim American Congress.) There also isn't an "Islamic party," to define Muslim voters principles.
 
Last edited:
So the POD is?

Otherwise good writing.

No set POD...We're just going to see Levantine immigrants in large numbers fleeing (earlier) Turkish nationalism in the Ottoman Empire, as well as Egyptians immigrating to the United States in lieu of the Irish, Italian, and German Catholic immigrants that came in the 19th century. These will go to Canada, which will be much more Catholic in nature, while the US is much more Protestant.

Protestantism and Catholicism are seen as completely different religions in this world, Protestantism recognizing Islam as closer to their theology than Catholicism, and (Western) Islam, being much more westernized in culture.
 
I like it a lot. It's a cultural POD, not a 'great battles or votes' one, and I very much like the thought that's gone into how it pans out. Keenir's right, I think I would like to live there. Nice manipulation of language, too.
 
MAC.jpg

The Muslim American Congress

The Jihad Councils of Pierre refer to three national meetings of Sunni Muslim clerics and scholars in the 19th century in Pierre, South Dakota.
During the early history of Islam in the United States, all of the mosques were independent, and self-supporting. This being the case, governance of the Faith in America was deemed necessarry to centralize, in order to keep with the Islamic doctrinte of Unity (Transliterated Arabic: "Ummah.") This was carried out by provincial councils held in Pierre. As the faith grew and was divided into multiple associations of mosques, it became necessary for a national (or plenary) council of the clerics, scholars, and lay of the United States to meet to foster and maintain common discipline.
The brothers of the Seventh Jihad Council of Pierre requested the Sublime Porte to sanction the holding of a plenary council. The petition was granted and the Ottoman Sultan in his role as Caliph, his approval only desired for purposes of Unity, appointed the clergyman Mustafa Sulayman to convene and preside over the council.

The First Jihad Council of Pierre

The First Plenary Council of Pierre was solemnly opened on May 9, 1852. Sessions were attended by six senior clerics, and thirty-five scholars. Another prelate in attendance was the Hawza, or Senior Clergyman, of Toronto's Muslim community. There were various senior clerics of Sufi orders as well, in attendance. The last solemn session was held on the 20th of May.
The decrees were as follows:
  1. The Brothers profess their allegiance to the Koran as the Divine Word of God, whose office it is to confirm the Muslim faithful in the Faith. They also declare their belief in the entirety of Islam as explained by the Sunni schools.
  2. The enactments of the seven provincial councils of Pierre are obligatory for all the mosques of the United States.
  3. The Salaah, in Arabic, confirmed by the First Council of Pierree, is to be observed in all mosques, and all are forbidden to introduce customs or rites foreign to Muslim faith. Sacred ceremonies are not to be employed in the burial of Muslims whose bodies are deposited in sectarian cemeteries; or even in public cemeteries, if there be Muslim cemeteries at hand.
  4. The Pierre Reaffirmation Shahana "Creed" is to be used all through the country in the Classical Arabic Dialect: La Ilaha ilallah, Mohammedur Rassoulallah.
  5. Senior Clergymen are to be in control of a city, or regions, mosques to further cooperation. They are to be exhorted to choose consultors from among their licensed Immams and to ask their advice in the government of the association of mosques. A monthly meeting of these consultors to discuss the groups affairs is praiseworthy.
  6. A chancellor should be constituted in every association, for the easier and more orderly transaction of business.
  7. Scholars forming the Shar'iah Consultative Council should appoint censors for books relating to religion.
  8. Foreign immams desiring to be received into an American mosque must have written testimonials from their former congregations, or fellow immams, and the consent of the ordinary here.
  9. The existing "quasi-mosques should have well-defined limits, and the jurisdiction and privileges of immams should be indicated by the senior clergymen. The ordinary can change these limits and it is his right to appoint the incumbents.
  10. After next Hirjra year, matrimonial banns must be published, and scholars, senior clergymen, and immams alike should dispense with this only for grave reasons.
  11. Immams themselves should teach Islamic doctrine to the young and ignorant.
  12. Associations of mosques are exhorted to have an Islamic school in every association and the teachers should be paid from the charity funds.
  13. An Islamic seminary should be erected in each region of the United States: New England, the South, the Midwest, Pacific Region, Prairie North, and Central Plains.
  14. The immam should demand every year an account of the administration of mosque funds from those who administer them, whether laymen or clerics.
  15. Laymen are not to take any part in the jobs of Immams without the free consent of the association. If they usurp any such authority and divert mosque goods to their own use or in any way frustrate the will of the donors; or if they, even under cover of the civil law, endeavour to wrest from the immam's hands what has been confided to his care, then such laymen by that very fact fall under the censures constituted by the Council against usurpers of the Ummah's goods.
  16. When the title to a mosque is in the senior clergyman's name, immams are warned not to appoint trustees or permit them to be elected without the senior clergyman's authority.
  17. Profession of the Shahanah must be performed in all dioceses in the manner prescribed by the Pierre "Ceremonial".
  18. All faithful, including clerics, should use their influence with the civil authorities to prevent anyone in the army or navy from being obliged to attend a religious service repugnant to his conscience.
  19. A Society for the Propagation of the Faith, similar to that of the Christians, should be fostered and extended.
  20. The faithful are exhorted to enter into a society of prayer for the conversion of non-Muslims.
  21. A petition should be addressed to the Caliphate asking for extraordinary faculties concerning matrimonial cases and the power, also, of delegating such faculties, should the need arise.
  22. The sixth decree of the Seventh Provincial Council of Pierre is to be understood as applying to those who rashly (temere) marry before a Shi'ah cleric. (Sunni) Immams should give no benediction to those whom they know to intend to remarry before a Shi'ite immam or who, having done so, show no signs of penitence.
  23. These decrees are binding as soon as they are published by the Senior Clergyman of Pierre after their affirmation of by the Commander-of-the-Faithful.
In sending the Caliph's approval of these decrees, the prefect of the Propaganda congregation exhorted the clerics to add the feast of the Thanksgiving to the holidays that the Muslim faithful already observed, and to be granted special Prayer designation.
The clerics are not to labour for conformity among the mosques in customs that are foreign to the discipline of the universal Ummah, for thus the appearance of a nationalized religion would be introduced. The Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire added that the Caliphate tolerated relaxations of the common law of the Faithful for grave reasons, but such derogations were not to be confirmed and extended, but rather every effort was to be made to bring about the observance of the universal discipline.
A letter from the Grand Vizier, added to the acts of the council, treats of the question of how the clerics are to be supported by their mosques and associations. It likewise insists that immams licensed specifically for missionary purposes are not to enter mosques as a congregational leader without the consent of their licensers, as they are required to make oaths that they will serve perpetually in the mosque for which they were licensed.

Core Beliefs of the Muslim American Congress
-There is no god, But God; and Mohammed is His Messenger
-The Koran is the infallible Word of God
-God begots not, nor was he begotten; and there are non Co-Equal unto Him
-Pentadaily Prayer is encouraged and recquired
-Almsgiving is encouraged and recquired
-Fasting during proscribed Seasons is encouraged, recquired, and healthy
-Pilgrimage to Mecca once in one's life


The Muslim American Congress is the associative body of Sunni and Sufi orders of the Sunni School, Muslims in America. It has four independent consultative councils for each school of thought: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali. Every mosque associated with the M.A.C. is registered with one of the four schools, and subject to that councils rulings. Together, the councils also form the Shari'ah Consultative Council, ruling on general abidances of (Sunni) Islam in America. Preaching without a license is strictly forbidden by the M.A.C., and Congress-Muslim immams are styled "The Respt. Immam John Smith."

The Maliki and Hanbali schools also recognize female immams for female-only groups of prayerers, and thus many Maliki and Hanbali mosques have "Assisting Immamah's," who are likewise styled "The Respt. Immamah Jane Smith," and have equal control over their congregations. The M.A.C. as a whole has recently begun debating the allowance of female immams to lead prayer from the side as a whole, but with much resistance from the Shafi'i Council.
 
USMS.jpg

The United States Muslim Synod
The United States Muslim Synod (usually identified as Muslim Synod, or USSMS) is an association of five Shi'ah Islam faith groups in the United States with 60,000 local congregations and 5,000,000 adherents. Its members currently (2007) include Traditional Shi'ah, Seveners, Sufi- Shi'ah Orders, Zaidia, Alawites, and the independent (Shi'ah) Sufi Fatimid order.
The USMS has long been a leading force in the Shi'ah integration movement in the United States. It is related fraternally to hundreds of local and state councils of mosques, and interfaith organizations.

The United States Muslim Synod was organized in 1933 as the handiwork of Traditionalist Senior Clergyman Ahmed Khalidson of Wisconsin, being a merger of the Traditionalist Islamic Council of the United States(formed in 1870) and the various groups associated with the other denominations of Shi'ah Islam. Representatives of the USMS's member denominations meet together annually in a general assembly with several other meetings each year by a smaller governing board. Most of the Synod's work is done through five intermosqual program commissions — Communication, Education and Leadership Ministries, Faith and Order, Interfaith Relations, and Justice and Advocacy. Membership in these commissions extends beyond the USMS's member communions to involve participants from more than 50 U.S. faith groups, including the Muslim American Congress, Protestant Christians, and Roman Catholics.

"The United States Muslim Synod is a community of Islamic congregations, which, in response to the Word as revealed in the Scriptures, confess Mohammed P.B.U.H, as the Last Prophet of God until the coming of the Final Immam. These congregational organizations covenant with one another to manifest ever more fully the unity of Shi'ah Islam. Relying upon the transforming power of the intercessions of such figures as the Prophet, Ali, Jesus Christ P.B.U.H, the Lady Fatima, etc. the groups come together as the Synod in common mission, serving in all creation to the glory of God."

This general statement is accepted by all of the USMS's member denominations, which as Shi'ah Muslim bodies hold these and many other beliefs in common. Each of the member groups also has a unique heritage, including teachings and practices that differ from those of other members.

The USMS holds the copyright of the English Standard Version and New English Standard Version of the Koran (both of which have been declared sacreligious in Prayer use by the Muslim American Congress.) The ESV, completed in 1952, was inteded by its translation team to be highly readable and literally accurate. It benefits from the collaborative insights of senior Shi'ah clerics from around the world, as well as high-profile Arabic-language professors. The NESV was completed in 1989, and has been praised by English-Only advocates as the "final assimilation of Americanism and Islamism."

Both translations have also been heavily criticized.Scholar Darrel Al-Faisal derisively called the ESV "a monument of higher critical scholarship" when referring to the RSV's translation punishment's as "mistakes," when the Prophet wrote them down.The NESV has also come under fire for its tendency toward gender-neutral language. The Traditional and Sufi bodies in the USMS have been hesitant to support either translation.The Traditionalist Association has "found (the NESV) to be so divergent from the Holy Scripture traditionally read aloud in the sacred prayer in the Mosques as to render it impossible of acceptance as Holy Scripture" and decided not to permit it for use in Friday prayers or Koran study.

Core beliefs of the United States Muslim Synod
-There is no God, but God; Mohammed is His Prophet; and Ali is the Beloved of God.
-The Koran is the infallible Word of God, in either Arabic, or approved translations
-God begots not, nor was he begotten; and there are non Co-Equal unto Him
-Pentadaily Prayer is encouraged and recquired
-Almsgiving is encouraged and recquired
-Fasting during proscribed Seasons is encouraged, recquired, and healthy
-Part of Life is Struggle to choose between Good and Evil
-Love the Prophet, and His Noble Family: Ali, Fatima, Hassan, and Hussein


Unlike the Muslim American Congress, the United States Muslim Synod is a loose federation of the branches of Shi'ah Islam existant in the United States. While the Traditionalists, and the Sufi-Shi'ah orders have changed little, the remaining members of the USMS have greatly adapted to American culture, most obvious in their 1988 Declaration of the Vernacular, which permitted Friday prayers as well as pentadaily prayers to be said in approved translations of any languages. The Traditionalist Shi'ah and Sufi Shi'ah have opposed this, but nonetheless remained in the Synod.

Each member in each state has its own Ayatollah (styled "His Eminence Ayatollah John Doe," or Lady Mujtahideh (equal) ((styled "Her Eminence the Lady Mujtahideh Jane Doe,")) who has sole discretion over interpretation of Shari'ah and Qurani intepretations for all the mosques in their member denomination, in that state. Together, these ayatollahs and mutjahidehs make up the Supreme Shari'ah Council of the United States Muslim Synod. Every large city has a Hawza, or Leader, to supervise the mosques and grand mosques in his or her metropolitan area. The Clerical hierarchy in Shi'ah Islam, especially in the United States, is somewhat similar to the US Government and Christian churches. While female clerics and scholars are allowed, all members of the USMS strictly forbid any female immams.
 
I only read the first post, and I really like this. Subscribing so I can finish it later...
 
Very well written piece of work and I particularly like how it's not all completely Islamic America, but with a more realistic tone. Of course, I think that with 85% of muslims considering their faith somewhat or very important a bit high though, of course still very plausible.
 
Saint Jesus = OTL Saint Helens

INDIANMISSION.jpg

Finally Home: Reversion Amongst Indian Tribes
Dr. Hussayn Bintarek, Blessed Fatima Islamic University
Saint Jesus, Montana​


Missionary-Immams (specially licensed) and women faithful, who taught and reverted among Native Americans, routinely submitted photographs to the editors of The Indian Sentinel, 1902-1962, a fundraising magazine published by the Bureau of Muslim Indian Missions. These photographs comprise the bulk of the pre-1970 images in the collection, from which the digital images were selected. In addition to images from the Bureau records, this collection contains a small number of images from the Saint Zaynab Tariqa Collection and the Society of Sister Aisha Binrasheed Collection, also held at Blessed Fatima Islamic University, here in Saint Jesus.
 
(Definatley Biased) "About Us" Article from the Homepage of the Muslim League. It is in no way affiliated with either the Muslim American Congress or the United States Muslim Synod.


MuslimLeague.jpg

About Us
What is the Muslim League?

The Muslim League is the nation's largest Muslim civil rights organization. Founded in 1973 by the late Brother Yasser Binabdula, the Muslim League defends the right of Muslims – lay and clerics alike – to participate in American public life without defamation or discrimination.
Motivated by the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment, the Muslim League works to safeguard both the religious freedom rights and the free speech rights of Muslims whenever and wherever they are threatened.
Is the Muslim League Necessary?

Absolutely. Harvard professor Richard Rotdslinger, Sr. once observed that prejudice against Islam was "the deepest bias in the history of the American people." Yale professor Randall Kiev commented that "Muslim baiting is the modern day Black-Racism of the liberals."
And today's brand of anti-Islamism is more virulent and more pervasive than ever before in American history. While it is true that Muslims as individuals have made progress in securing their rights, the degree of hostility exhibited against Islam, and particullarly the Muslim American Congress is appalling. Quite simply, Muslim bashing has become a staple of American society.
What Does the Muslim League Do?
  • When slanderous assaults are made against Islam, the Muslim League hits the newspapers, television, and radio talk shows defending the right of the Muslim American Congress to promote its teachings with as much verve as any other institution in society.
  • When Muslims are the victims of a bigoted portrayal by the media, the Muslim League issues news releases bringing the matter to the attention of the public. It may also encourage a boycott of the program's sponsors.
  • When Muslim students or employees are denied their rights in school or on the job, the Muslim League makes a formal response to the guilty parties; the league response may include litigation.
  • When the religious freedom rights of any American are threatened, the Muslim League stands ready to fight for justice in the courts.
  • When Muslims are slighted by public officials, the Muslim League calls press conferences alerting the public to the unacceptable behavior of their servants.
  • When Muslim interests are unfairly represented by public policy initiatives, the Muslim League offers testimony before legislative bodies to set the record straight.
  • When officials in government, the media and education need an informed perspective on Muslim civil rights issues, the Muslim League provides a quick and effective response.
The above list is hardly inclusive of all Muslim League activities, but it does provide some idea of what we do. In essence, the Muslim League monitors the culture, acting as a watchdog agency and defender of the civil rights of all Muslims. Much of what we do is reported in our monthly journal. We also have chapter offices located in several areas of the country.
Who Funds the Muslim League?

You do! That's right — we're donor driven. Without your support, we don't exist.
We don't receive a dime from the Muslim American Congress. Nor should we: we are a lay organization. Sure, we have many clerics who are members and all are welcome to join – but our financial base comes from individuals, not the Congress.
Why is this so important? Because as a lay Muslim organization we don't have to worry about violating faith and state lines. Besides, we shouldn't ask our clerics and scholars to do our job; when Submission to God is attacked, so are its members, and that means you. That is why we must provide a response.
 
Turkish nationalism in the Ottoman Empire doesn't really make sense (it took off only after all the non-Turkish portions of the empire were lost, and even then didn't really catch on until about 1930), but it is an interesting and original timeline nevertheless.

It's hard to comment on your Sunni Islam because it's so weird and you haven't specified if its Hanefi, Salafi, etc.; for instance, Hanefis wouldn't really care about banking reform. The whole thing about loaning at interest is really a fringe fundamentalist position.
 
INDIANMISSION.jpg


Finally Home: Reversion Amongst Indian Tribes
Dr. Hussayn Bintarek, Blessed Fatima Islamic University
Saint Jesus, Montana​


Missionary-Immams (specially licensed) and women faithful, who taught and reverted among Native Americans, routinely submitted photographs to the editors of The Indian Sentinel, 1902-1962, a fundraising magazine published by the Bureau of Muslim Indian Missions. These photographs comprise the bulk of the pre-1970 images in the collection, from which the digital images were selected. In addition to images from the Bureau records, this collection contains a small number of images from the Saint Zaynab Tariqa Collection and the Society of Sister Aisha Binrasheed Collection, also held at Blessed Fatima Islamic University, here in Saint Jesus.

What is St. Helen's? I was raised on an Indian reservation in Montana, so I'd be happy to help you flesh out this section.
 
Oh wow! So many responses! Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this! I know I haven't included many graphics until my last two points, so I hope the first ones weren't too boring! I'm going to take the time now to respond individually to all of you! Again, thanks a lot!

:)

-Avicenna
---------------------------

Keenir said:
terrific!

just one question: where's the divergence? ;)

edit: dangit, nick beat me to it.

this is a great ATL. think I'd rather live there.

  • The divergence, like I said, isn't really set in stone. However, instead of seeing the large influx of (specifically Irish and Italian) Catholic immigrants, we will see more hostile Protestant Christians accepting the Muslims as true-er to the Reformed spirit, and more (not necessarily entirely) accepted into America.
  • Haha, thanks. I'm trying to make it realistic though, not too utopian ;)
BlackMage said:
I like it a lot. It's a cultural POD, not a 'great battles or votes' one, and I very much like the thought that's gone into how it pans out. Keenir's right, I think I would like to live there. Nice manipulation of language, too.
  • Thanks. I'd read over many timelines here before I started posting, I'm trying not to sound too newb-esque! Haha. But I just thought making a timeline very parallel to ours, yet uniquely and strickingly different, would take more than, well, I couldn't say it better than you- "great battlers or votes." Again, thanks!
carlton_bach said:
Very interesting. Please, go on! I love thoughtful social history
  • Thanks Carlont! I too have a passion for social history, and thus, the changes in society today had things in (social) history gone only slightly, yet significantly, different. I hope you enjoy what is to come!
Atreus said:
I agree, this is fascinating. Very well researched.
  • Thank you so much Atreus! I'm glad it appears as so, because I've spent much time researching to make it sound as factual and true as I can! Glad you're enjoying the reading! Continue, please!
SRT said:
I only read the first post, and I really like this. Subscribing so I can finnish this later...
  • I'm glad you like this! Atleast I know it's catchy! Please do read the rest to the point I've made, and please, if anything, critique it and suggest fixings to any errors you may come across!
Bishop said:
Very well written piece of work and I particularly like how it's not all completely Islamic America, but with a more realistic tone. Of course, I think that with 85% of muslims considering their faith somewhat or very important a bit high though, of course still very plausible.
  • Thank you! As I said, I'm trying to make it as realistic as I can. Besides, a completely Islamic America would take much more divergence from actual history than I've created!
  • Actually, the 85% I think, from personal experience, people I know, and facts is quite low for OTL American Muslims. In fact, that is the number (according to one poll) of how many Catholics consider their faith somewhat or very important! :D
  • As long as it makes sense to you, because you're the reader! If it really is too high, let me know you opinion, please!
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Turkish nationalism in the Ottoman Empire doesn't really make sense (it took off only after all the non-Turkish portions of the empire were lost, and even then didn't really catch on until about 1930), but it is an interesting and original timeline nevertheless.

It's hard to comment on your Sunni Islam because it's so weird and you haven't specified if its Hanefi, Salafi, etc.; for instance, Hanefis wouldn't really care about banking reform. The whole thing about loaning at interest is really a fringe fundamentalist position.
  • First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to read my post!
  • By your name, I'm going to assume you're Turkish, and so I can be detailed in my explanation: By "Turkish nationalism happening more early," I am by no means directing this towards the Revolution and post-Revolutionary Turkish nationalism. Rather, I mean greater control and influence in the government of groups such as the Turanian Society, and idealogies like Pan-Turanism and Pan-Turkism taking greater hold in Istambul. And again, thanks for the compliment!
  • My Sunni Islam is not supposed to be too divergent from the actuality of Sunni Islam. Being Sunni, I believe all that the fictitious Jihad Councils of Pierre declared not only allowable, but almost necessary for the (Sunni) Muslim faithful living in a non-Muslim land. It is simply strongly promoting unity amongst the Ummah.
  • As "I" said in my post on the Muslim American Congress; Sunni Islam in America includes all four schools, as does Sunni Islam across the world. As you said, the Hanafi won't be worried so much about bank reforms, however the Shafi'i may be inclined to do so. As bank reform in this timeline is a modern issue, it is most likely that a rise in dual-patriotism of being both Muslim and American, will revive Muslim traditions, and lead many (Sunni) Muslims to desire an optional Shari'ah-compliant banking system.
  • Please feel free to comment back on your input! Two minds are better than one! And again, thanks!
Dan1988 said:
Interesting TL. Keep it up!:D
  • Thanks, I'll do my best to post more, and try to keep it interesting! And on your part, please continue reading and commenting!
The Bald Imposter said:
What is St. Helen's? I was raised on an Indian reservation in Montana, so I'd be happy to help you flesh out this section.
  • By Saint Helens, I mean simply the city in OTL that is named Saint Helens, was simply settled overwhelmingly by Muslims, and as such, bear an (Anglicized) Islamic name. The city has nothing to do with the article on the reversion of Indian tribes.
  • Actually, I'd love your assistance! I truly wanted to be more detailed on Islamic propogating amongst the Native Americans! Feel free to PM me, or just post here anything you'd like, or anything you'd think would be beneficial! I thank you so much!
The Sicilian said:
Very nice multimedia.
  • Thanks mate! I was trying to go for a realistic feel, haha! Apparently it worked! Please continue to check back for more, and comment!
---------------------------
I can't say enough how helpful everyone's comments have been so far! Please keep it up!
 
[You may notice a similar parallel speech in OurTimeLine...You may or may not also notice the similarity to the man pictured below, and a political leader from roughly the same time period...]


200px-Abdallah_El-Yafi.jpg

Joseph I. Salim

Address to the United States Reformed Ministers Association*, September 12, 1960:
I was born and raised in an America where the separation of faith and state is absolute–where no Muslim cleric would tell the President (should he be Muslim) how to act, nor a Christian pastor advise his congregation for whom to vote–where no faith school is granted any public funds or political preference–and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I was born and raised in an America that is officially neither Muslim, Protestant nor Catholic–where no public officers either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Muslim American Congress, the Union of Reformed Churches, or any other ecclesiastical source–where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials–and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one faith is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Muslim against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Catholic–or a Quaker–or an Orthodox–or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, even, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim- -but tomorrow it may be you–until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

Finally, I was born and raised in an America where religious intolerance will someday end–where all men and all faiths are treated as equal–where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the religious services of his choice–where there is no Muslim vote, no anti-Islamic vote, no bloc voting of any kind–and where Muslims, Protestant Christians and Catholics, at both the lay and clerical or clergical level, will refrain from those positions of disunity and disdain which have so often scarred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of Union.

That is the kind of America in which I was born. In which I was raised. And in which we all live and work today. And it represents the kind of Presidency in which I believe–a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group nor immoral by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office. This is the kind of America I know we have, and it is this America that I hope and pray, to the God we all worship, will elect me as President of the United States of America.


*A very politically-involved group. By the 1960's, had almost become synnonymous with the Republican Party- grouping and aligning White European Reformed Protestants almost virtually into this group.
 
Last edited:
Top